Underwater Heritage

[Steve in Sharm]

Having read (and took part in) the arguement re Spain.

http://www.divernet.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?id=4246&section=2272&action=display

I was astonished to see the bit by the 4 'so called' academics who were bleating on about underwater heritage.

Do they not know the meaning of the word?



her·i·tage (hĕr'ĭ-tĭj)

noun.

1. Property that is or can be inherited; an inheritance.
Something that is passed down from preceding generations; a tradition.

2. The status acquired by a person through birth; a birthright: a heritage of affluence and social position.

[Middle English, from Old French, from eritier, heir, from Medieval Latin hērēditārius, from Latin, inherited. See hereditary.]


Now it seems to me that 'stuff lying on the bottom of the sea, wether on a wreck or lost overboard' is non of this

How can something 'lost' be handed down - inherited? They talk of a ship 40 miles of Lands End - but they do not know where it is - so it is lost and cannot have been handed down, and therefore cannot be classed as 'underwater heritage'. Ditto the Spain/Gibraltar thingy.....

How about a different angle! Wood rots (eventually) in sea water, So does metal/steel/iron whatever - only certain metals do not (gold, brass etc)

Now if these 'academics' get their way, all this stuff will continue to lie on the bottom, rotting/rusting etc. What doesn't rot away will in time be covered by either sand or coral growth and will therefore be lost to us forever anyway - so lets bring it up

Now dont get me wrong, I am not advocating a free for all pillage of whats down there. I do believe in and push the 'Respect Our Wrecks' campaign to new divers. But if it is found, it should be brought up, treated properly so as to ensure it doesn't rot when it comes into contact with fresh air again, and of course teated properly with regards to ownership/onward movement of the find/reimbursement etc etc. And of course - doing it this way will ensure that it doesn't just go into someone's garage (come on, how many of you have got stuff/seen stuff that should be anywhere other than where you saw it) but goes to museums etc.

If these bleating academics get their way our childrens children will have nothing but stories of what used to be lying on the bottom.

JM2p - Have lit the blue touch paper, Im now gonna hide in a trench until my baked beans run out.

Steve

[Fred]

My personal definition:-
If I can recover it it's mine.:D
If I can't recover it then it's heritage and nobodyelse can touch it:mad:

As an aside Gibraltar is spelt with A's :eek:

[toptribefan]

As an aside Gibraltar is spelt with A's :eek:

He's ex Army so please forgive him.....he was only ever there to visit his cousins. You probably know them, quite hairy fellows and they live rough on the rock! ;)

[Steve in Sharm]

He's ex Army so please forgive him.....he was only ever there to visit his cousins. You probably know them, quite hairy fellows and they live rough on the rock! ;)

OK shiney ar$e, this means war.... :D

You know war, that thing you lot travel close to but dont actually get involved in!!!!!!;)

As an aside

Shame they moved my post out of general discussions into here. I put it there so that more people would read it (not many read the environmental stuff).

Steve

[Adrian Kelland]

OK shiney ar$e, this means war.... :D

You know war, that thing you lot travel close to but dont actually get involved in!!!!!!;)

As an aside

Shame they moved my post out of general discussions into here. I put it there so that more people would read it (not many read the environmental stuff).

Steve
Steve,

I moved it to the appropriate area. The thread still appears in new posts and home page if appropriate.

Adrian

[Steve in Sharm]

Trying to get more responses, and get the thread back on track.

Would it not be a good idea that club DO's had some form of NAS 'style' training/guidance? Even if it was just a small booklet on how to treat stuff.

Or maybe a club 'finds' officer - who has more in depth training.

Steve

[toptribefan]

Or maybe a club 'finds' officer - who has more in depth training.


Not having done any diving where I'm likely to find anything, this seemed like a good idea. Then I thought about it and realised that you would still be relying on the individual integrity of divers to report their finds. How would that differ from now?

P.S. I've been to war! at least thats what it seemed like at the time with those bloody italians stealing all the poolside loungers :p

[Alison Boler]

I think this is a very difficult area which needs a lot of thought and I am glad that the working parties are now underway. On one hand the idea that items are better brought up to the surface and conserved rather than left to rot/be lost on the ocean floor is an attractive one. On the other hand, there are countless examples that what this actually means is that the items disappear into private collections/are left to rot in gardens or scrap yards (I believe one of the props from the Lusitania is in such a position).
I'm not sure that the example given of when something is lost it is free game is really sound. For example, the city of Pompeii was lost for 1700 years under the ashes, would the world be better and would we know more about those times if people were just allowed a free for all salvage when it was found? As it is, many artifacts were lost when archaeology started because methods were much cruder than they are today. Today, many archaeologists favour leaving artifacts in place - even covered - as the best way to preserve them for the future. Herculaneum, another Vesuvian victim, is a case in point - it has been exposed and now there is a massive race against time in order to stop the damage that exposure to air and water is doing.
Now, clearly there are huge differences between the conservation of what is underwater and the conservation of artifacts on land, but the principal is largely similar - look at the huge steps that have been necessary to protect the Mary Rose since it was lifted. What about the Titanic? Is it really better that artifacts from that wreck are touted around the world for the profit of the few? Ballard certainly doesn't think so and now bitterly regrets not registering the wreck in order to protect it from the scavengers.
Some of us more "mature" divers have grown up in a time when it was fair game to take whatever you find. With better understanding, the world has moved on and whilst not all wreck sites or historic underwater sites need protection, many do. It isn't just about wrecks, it's about protecting places like the standing stones off Wales, and other locations like that.
Look at what's happened to the Thistlegorm and it is difficult to say that some measures of protection should not be in place. Policing them is a different matter and will have to rely on education and good will amongst divers.
I view this much in the same way as fish protection. When I started going to the Red Sea in the early 80s it was considered very much the norm to take hard boiled eggs out in your bc to feed to the Napoleon Wrasse. I even saw dive guides feeding them cheese-whiz out of cans. People touched coral, sponges, touched turtles or tried to ride them. No one thought it was cruel because no one understood that you were actually hurting them. Now we do and everything has changed - god help you if you touch the coral these days!
I'll be interested to see what emerges. No one would favour heavy handed legislation that would be impossible to enforce or blanket bans, but an educational sensible policy would be a great idea in order to protect what is under the water for the future.
Allie